Episode 58: Chris Baty, Figma - UX writing, content and product design

Kristina Halvorson:
This is the content strategy podcast and I’m your host, Kristina Halvorson. On each and every episode I interview someone I admire who’s doing meaningful work in content strategy and all its adjacent disciplines. If you care about making content more useful, usable and inclusive for all, welcome in, you have found your people.

Hello friends, and welcome back to The Content Strategy Podcast. I have the most delightful guest today. Instead of complaining about the weather, which frankly, it's summer in Minnesota now I have nothing to complain about, everything is beautiful and perfect. I'm going to dive right in to introducing him. Friends and neighbors, this is Chris Baty. Chris is the Head of UX Writing at Figma. Chris accidentally founded National Novel Writing Month, which you likely know as NaNoWriMo, in 1999, and oversaw the events growth, from 21 Friends to more than 300,000 writers in 90 countries. Chris now serves as a board member emeritus for NaNoWriMo, and spends his days wrangling words at Figma, and endlessly revising his own novels. He is the author of, No Plot, No Problem, and the co-author of, Ready, Set, Novel. His quest for the perfect cup of coffee is ongoing and will likely kill him someday. That's not going to happen. That's overstated. How much coffee do you drink every day?

Chris Baty:
First off, it's great to be here. Second off, it is a lot of coffee. I'm doing a pot, a pot and a half I think is an average.

Kristina Halvorson:
Really?

Chris Baty:
Oh, it's gasp inducing. Is that bad? How much coffee do you drink?

Kristina Halvorson:
I drink two cups.

Chris Baty:
Oh, see. That's amateur hour. Kristina, I really need you to-

Kristina Halvorson:
No. Don't say that. That's a good healthy habit right there, is what that is.

Chris Baty:
I think you need to apply yourself more in the coffee drinking arts. I'm going to be honest with you.

Kristina Halvorson:
Well, I'm offended. That offends me. We're going to talk about UX content in just a minute. Everybody just take a seat. What kind of coffee do you drink? What do you drink?

Chris Baty:
So, my favorite is actually Pete's Coffee, which I know-

Kristina Halvorson:
It is?

Chris Baty:
Yes. I love a good Pete's Coffee. Major Dickason's in case you weren't-

Kristina Halvorson:
Yes. Nope. If I have decaf, that's what I drink.

Chris Baty:
Yeah. So, I'm a dedicated coffee drinker, and yet I feel very embarrassed about my coffee taste, because I feel like everybody's moved on to these really tartar, light roast coffees, and I just love a good... I want to taste that campfire in my mouth. Give it to me.

Kristina Halvorson:
I'm with you.

‍Chris Baty:
That's what I'm saying.

Kristina Halvorson:
I'm with you. I'm with you 100%. We're going to get along great. Chris, I always start off my podcast interviews by asking people to please share with me their journey to where they are now, through the ever-changing, ever-evolving field of content strategy and UX writing. Tell me about yours.

Chris Baty:
Yeah. I was just listening to your most recent episode with Kara, which was so good, and I felt like she had the classic intro, which is like, I never meant to be here. I'm so happy I'm here. But this was a real series of accidents, and I think, like so many people, I started out with one vision of where I was headed. In college, I studied cultural anthropology, and then I got into a PhD program for cultural anthropology and headed there, ready to go the distance and put in whatever it is, 95 years of field work, and then emerge with my PhD. I think in the first month I was like, oh, this is not a great fit for me. So, one of the things I did do, I stayed there for a year and I was able to start writing for the school paper. That, I felt like was, for me, the juiciest most exciting thing.

I was doing band profiles and record reviews. A lot of it was music stuff. I'm a big music nerd as well. I think that just was like, that gave me that spark that I think the academia, that deep theories of knowledge that were pooling around anthropology at the University of Chicago, did not give me. So, I think that helped me think, okay. I'm going to rethink where I want to go and writing really should be part of it. So, I left that PhD program and basically started doing travel writing for guidebooks like, Lonely Planet and Fodors. I wrote more music writing for the alternative weeklies. Then you had mentioned National Novel Writing Month at the start of the episode. In 1999, when I was 26, I just started this thing where I invited a group of friends to write a terrible, terrible first draft of a book very quickly.

It ended up taking on this really unexpected life. Then 13 years later, it was a nonprofit and we had a full-time staff and an office, and a lot of over caffeinated novelists. But I think when you start something and it grows, as it grows and you hire more people, you end up delegating the parts of the job that you love the most, and you end up doing the things... For me, it was fundraising, and a lot of administrative work, and I think the organization I just loved and seeing that impact and being able to go into a bookstore and seeing all these great books on the shelf that started as National Novel Writing manuscripts was so inspiring. But I think I missed the writing part of it. That kind of contact high that you get hanging out with writers. So, I left National Novel Writing Month and passed the baton onto the staff and board, and then that was my start of spending more time writing.

I had a friend who worked at Dropbox and she was like, "Hey, we really need help with words." I went in to work as a contractor just on one particular feature, and I was hooked. I was just 40 at the time, and it felt like a big career change, probably the third career that I'd had. But I think there was something just so uniquely satisfying about building things with people. A lot of those lessons I had learned about how to make this cold interface feel human, from working at National Novel Writing Month, really applied to this work that I was doing at Dropbox. So, I stayed on, worked there for almost five years, and then when Figma posted their ad for their first UX writer, I was like, yeah. I was using Figma at the time. I really felt like it had transformed the way UX writing and content design could happen. I was like, this seems amazing. So, joined there as the very first UX writer and have been here at Figma ever since.

Kristina Halvorson:
So, I have so many things to ask you. The first thing I do want to share with listeners is that I pulled up Chris's bio, which I had not received in advance, and had no idea that he was the actual founder of NaNoWriMo, and proceeded to completely lose my mind, as well as reveal myself to be the amateur podcaster that I am. So, that is very exciting, and a bonus to also interviewing the head of UX writing at Figma. I just wanted to admit that and own my ignorance. Chris, I have to tell you, I could not agree more that Figma completely revolutionized the way that UX writers were able to collaborate, and to have their work really surfaced and recognized within the product design field.

I want to take a step back for a minute because I realized that I think that you may be the first Head of UX Writing that I have had on this podcast. I have tended over the years to focus more with folks who are doing content strategy for large complex websites, or folks that are actually leading larger content strategy teams at the website, or the enterprise level. You have actually grown the UX writing team at Figma, from you. Can you talk a little bit about that process?

Chris Baty:
Yeah. So, when I started, I think a lot of product design teams hit a point, usually around, I don't know, seven to 10 or so product designers, where they start to realize that they're spending a lot of time thinking about words and language, and things are starting to... Really, the models are usually starting to slip, because it's a really a tough job to be a product designer. But then to also be thinking about how these taxonomies of words are going to intersect with each other, or how similar sounding words may start causing problems in your content system, that's a whole other task, and it's a challenging one. So, when I started, I think the product design team, and the product managers were starting to feel like, yeah. Figma was growing at that point, it was still just the UI, main UI design tool. But they were trying to think about how to be useful to different audiences.

I think at that point too, FigJam, the online whiteboard, was just on the horizon, and so trying to think about, what is the intersection between this space where you dream and brainstorm and have fun meetings and deploy cat stickers, and this very, very plain quiet space where you're building these careful designs. So, one of the really just absolutely wonderful things about starting at Figma as the first UX writer, was just that I had such huge support from my manager, Noah Levin, who I think... A lot of times writers really have to argue for that seat at the design table. I think that that really tends to start at the top. It's like, how is the function perceived by the head of design? I've always had this steadfast advocate and cheerleader in Noah, who from the get-go, was basically just like, "Listen. UX writing is really another kind of design. You're using language as your primary medium."

But the expectation is that you will be right in there thinking about interaction patterns and helping shape product strategy, and helping set this team vision for what this group wants to achieve together. I think once that's in place, everything's going to flourish. It's just, the soil is in the garden and the plants are going to grow. So, I feel just very lucky, I think, to have that sense of warmth and inclusion from the top down on, what are we there to do as writers? So, I spent the first year just on my own. At the time I felt like, so I had definitely read all of the guidelines of, "So, you're starting a new function at a company," and there's a lot of great advice on how to do it. But I think that for me, I ended up chucking a lot of that out the window and really just focusing on trying to build relationships.

I do think that, especially when you're starting something new, those relationships become the foundation of everything that you and the future people that you hire are going to be able to accomplish. It feels like overly simplistic, but I do think that to me, starting to build trust and helping people feel connected to you, and know that if they're confused about something, what are you really there to do? Or, how early in the design process should you be looped in? What are things that they can ask of you and not ask of you? I think when people feel safe asking those questions, that's how a new discipline can really establish itself, and really start to thrive. So, that's what I focused on. Then when we started hiring at about a year in, it was amazing. I think I had forgotten how much of a struggle it is to be the lone practitioner of something, and to finally start to have that team back again.

When I had left the Dropbox UX writing team, there were 15 of us, so it had grown from three of us when I started to 15. I think writing is really a social activity. I think I saw that through National Novel Writing Month. I think I see that in UX writing and content design. I think our best ideas are made better by the people around us. It can be tough to just be the only writer. You still get great feedback from product designers or PMs or engineers, great ideas come from everywhere. But there's something about having a group of other content designers and UX writers there, to just go so nerdy on whether that should be a comma or an em dash, or God forbid a semicolon, should there ever be a semicolon anywhere? So, the team grew pretty quickly to the point we hired our first two UX writers about two years ago. There are now seven of us total.

So, there are six embedded IC individual contributor writers, and then there's me as the manager. That's just been the greatest journey. It feels so good to staff up and find the right people for the right product areas, and to also start to see that team comradery building. I think to me, in addition to trust and building trust, one of the most important elements in any writing team is that sense of psychological safety with one another. The feeling that you can share anything at any stage, and that people are going to meet you where you are and give the feedback that helps you make it better. I think we definitely have that at Figma. Every day I wake up and I'm just like, "Oh, thank goodness," because I'm also still doing writing. It takes a village to write a modal. I really, really believe that.

Kristina Halvorson:
You realize, you just literally described every UX writer's dream job? What you just described is UX writing fan fic, that is what just happened there. You talk about creating and fostering that sense of psychological safety. Practically, how do you do that?

Chris Baty:
Yeah. Well, I've learned from... I've really been, again, so lucky to work with such amazing people. I think part of that is, I think a writer's real skillsets oftentimes have nothing to do with your ability to craft beautiful sentences, or find the right words for things. It's really about curiosity and empathy, and asking the right questions at the right time. So, I think one of the things that I've always encouraged and that our team has really agreed with and brought to the table, was just this idea that when people are showing work, the first thing you want to do is just make sure that you understand, what's the context, who's the audience, what are some things you've already tried, what are the constraints? I think the key to giving good feedback is really understanding, what does this person really need? So, I think when people show work at UX Writing Workshop, or we also have Product Design Crits where writers show work to a broader audience of writers and designers.

I think the key is just when people show work, just making sure you understand, what is most useful for you right now? What stage of the design process is this? I think that Figma, and Dropbox was this way too which is so wonderful, is definitely a place of humbleness, low ego, kindness. People are just really good at asking those questions about, what's useful for you right now? Rather than trying to, I don't know, score points or zing somebody for not following a style guideline. I think also part of it is just, as a leader, just making sure you're sharing work as well. My work is not great. It's like, I bring the same delightfully imperfect, potential filled, yet terrible, first drafts of things, and people give feedback and make it so much better. I think that model of everybody putting stuff out there, getting that advice, making it better together, getting to someplace great through everybody's input, I think setting that example and tone is really helpful.

Kristina Halvorson:
Well, I couldn't agree more that that comes from the top, that comes from leadership. It's almost impossible to foster an environment like that, and to encourage people, and to make people feel safe to share at that level. You mentioned that, Noah, your boss, sets the tone for that, and appreciates and understands deeply the value of having writers who are able to perform under that, within that environment, and the value that their work brings to the product design process. How did he get that way?

Chris Baty:
It's a really good question.

Kristina Halvorson:
I mean, I'm being a little goofy there, but I think what I want to ask is, how and where do you think Noah saw the light, when it came to, this is what content design is, this is what UX writing does within a product, and this is why it's so fundamentally important to a product success?

Chris Baty:
It is such a great question. I think Noah may have been born with that understanding. Probably from the time he was crawling, he really understood content design as a type of product design. But beyond infancy... It's a good question. I mean, Noah has definitely worked at companies where I think he had seen the value of great UX writing. Part of the nice thing I think about our discipline maturing, is we start to have this track record, which is pretty undeniable. You look at the business value of UX writing, for instance. There's so many cases now where you can very easily point to a writer as having saved the company millions of dollars, or made the company millions of dollars. I mean, this is literally a single writer that is focused on the right project, or has this perspective of this encouragement to roll up their sleeves and troubleshoot problems and find opportunities.

I think those are easy to find now, and I think our discipline has just done a great job of that. I think also, this notion of voice is such an interesting one. I think Noah just really recognizes that generational products, these products that really are stand out, that are very unique, really need to have a really rigorous and thoughtful framework that is guiding how they sound, how they meet people at different product moments. The thing that somebody reads out on Instagram, which is put out by the company, would meet what they would read when they hit the landing page, which would meet the person that they meet, when they first create an account and drop into the product for the first time. I think understanding that is really... At that point, that's a magical job. It's complex, there's a lot of moving parts. So, I think Noah just had realized, it'd be great to have professionals here to help us think through all that.

Kristina Halvorson:
So, before I ask a question about that, I would like to say on the side, and I'm not going to put you on the spot, you said that those cases are easy to find, and I have people coming to me all the time asking me where those cases are, and I don't know.

Chris Baty:

Oh my gosh.

Kristina Halvorson:

So, if you know where they are and you can send them to me-

Chris Baty:

Yes.

Kristina Halvorson:

... I'll put them in the show notes. Because I feel like I hear people are begging for that everywhere, everywhere we go. If there were some sort of a centralized resource of business cases that people could bring to their bosses, that could transform the field real quickly.

Chris Baty:

Yeah. I will definitely send some. I think if you Google, ROI of UX writing, is how I found one of them. But one example from my time at Dropbox. We had a UX writer there named Nick, who was fantastic. Nick, there was this problem where people were deleting shared folders without realizing that if they had been shared on a folder and then they deleted it, it would delete it for everybody. Across the-

Kristina Halvorson:

I've never done that. Oh, wait.

Chris Baty:

Yeah, never.

Kristina Halvorson:

Yes, I have.

Chris Baty:

Yes. So, one of the reasons that you probably have done it, and many people have done it, and sometimes without even being aware of it is, back before there was a Nick, there was no confirmation moment of explaining the stakes of this action. There may have been something that was unclear, but I think Nick did this great job. Worked with a design researcher, a PM, crafted a whole bunch of different takes on how to message what is going to happen to you, and ended up landing on something that when it shipped, ended up saving Dropbox users something on the order of... It was millions of accidentally deleted files every week. Which then translated into, we had an amazing support team based out of Athens, Greece, that the only way to restore some of those files was to reach out to these people. So, we were also taking up a ton of their time with these requests, that ultimately all were fixed by Nick's confirmation dialogue that was like, "Are you sure? This is what it's going to do."

The effect was transformational. So, that I think, is a great example of something where, it is not a particularly sexy bit of user interface. It's not a winsome or playful thing that necessarily makes people feel at home, or carries a lot of the brand voice into these small spaces. It was a very basic piece of UI, but Nick worked hard to find the right words. I think that ended up really saving the company a lot of money. But more importantly, it saved tens of thousands of users that horrifying feeling, which maybe you experienced, which is like, "Oh, God. What did I just do?"

Kristina Halvorson:
Well, we didn't experience it until somebody else reached out to us and said-

Chris Baty:

Exactly.

Kristina Halvorson:

... "God, what have you done?" Exactly. Then it becomes a five alarm fire for sure. So, you talked a little bit about seeing the industry evolve and mature. I'm interested to hear where you see that and how you perceive that. I will say, as a side note, I came up, my work came up through website content strategy really, starting in about 2006, 2007. Content design, which people really were calling product content strategy for a period of time, didn't really, I will say, come to light until about 2019. That's when I think Shopify published their guide to content design. I think that there was another team, maybe it was the Dropbox team, that renamed content design from content strategy. I've lost track of who it was.

Then Meta did it, or Facebook at the time. We launched Button, the content design conference, our content design conference, in October of 2020. We called it The Product Content Strategy Conference because that name was still catching on. So, from my vantage point, I saw it just explode in 2021. Suddenly everybody was talking about it, companies were hiring for it, UX writing bootcamps and certifications were just multiplying exponentially. Not that any of that necessarily signals evolution and maturation, it just signals more people. But talk to me from your perspective about what's going on there.

Chris Baty:
Yeah. So, I'm definitely seeing it through a Figma lens, which I think I do feel like Figma has become the place where work happens, and where, in my mind, the absolute best collaboration between content designers and product designers is happening in a Figma file. Where people are riffing on each other's work, where product designers are remixing words, and the UX writers are remixing designs. I think that that super close form of collaboration, I think a version of that is starting to happen in more places. So, one of the things, about a year ago, we decided it was time to refresh our career levels at Figma. So, we had the product design career levels, we didn't have any UX writing career levels, we were just borrowing the product design ones. So, when we created them, we made this very intentional decision to basically make the UX writing and the product design career levels word-for-word identical in 75% of the areas.

Craft was the only category where things were different. Even within Craft, the UX writing team at Figma has design as one of those tracks. So, the idea that you should feel comfortable diving into Figma and using components to express your ideas and help make your work clearer. I think that that notion of writing as design, it feels like that is now... You don't need to explain that a lot. I also see this as more and more product designers, I get to work with new product designers who come from different companies, they arrive with an understanding of, "I understand what a UX writer or a content designer is there to do." I think there's still a lot of explaining to do, which I think we forget, because change happens so quickly, and because I think the content designers and UX writers understand our values, sometimes we forget that there's still some people that we need to explain it to.

But I feel like a lot of that is becoming more and more of a given, in that the design process is a shared one. It is a shared space, where language and visuals are closely intertwined. We're both people, the UX writer and the designer, have that opportunity to shape this final experience, and it's something you build together. I definitely think that was not the case. When I was at Dropbox in 2015 or stuff, or so, we were still getting Sketch files and downloading them, and then working on them, and then emailing them back or putting them in Dropbox, sharing them back with a designer. At that point, the designs had already moved forward six steps, and we were just like, "Okay. Back to those words again." But now I do think that that notion of a real creative partnership still, it feels like that is gaining traction and becoming the norm. That's, I think, the evolution that I'm seeing, which I find super heartening.

Kristina Halvorson:
So, I first want to say that career pathing tool or overview that you put together, that your team put together, I had open in my browser for a month straight. I think it was actually Beth Dunn who shared that with me first.

Chris Baty:

Oh, I love that.

Kristina Halvorson:

She used to work with Andrew Schmidt, I think.

Chris Baty:

Yeah.

Kristina Halvorson:

Who's with you at Figma now. So, our work at Brain Traffic, we focus a lot more now... We still do complex website content strategy, but we're also really starting to work with leadership who is, content is really complicated across an enterprise, and we need to start pulling together all the different parts and pieces, so that it is a little bit more of a well-oiled, well choreographed machine. Part of that becomes, okay. Well, how do we create these career paths for content folks beyond, you go from writer to the manager of writer, and then we don't know what to do with you? So, thank you for that. I have shared it with so many clients, and it's been so helpful, and I am hoping that it really continues to gain traction within the field. So, thank you.

Chris Baty:

Oh, that's so great.

Kristina Halvorson:

Yeah. Oh yeah, for sure. I think the other thing is that, because of our event Button, and because of just the different conversations I'm able to have and see happen behind the scenes, there are still a... And frankly, the clients we work with, there are still so many organizations out there, where leadership doesn't get that it's, quote, "More than just words." They don't understand the design process that takes place. They don't understand the critical importance of user understanding when we're coming to the table of words, they don't understand the art and craft of creating usability within a product, or of findability or navigability within a website, for example.

So, there is still almost like this stagnation across so many organizations around that, where leadership simply can't get their heads wrapped around it. What's more, they don't have any curiosity about it, which I think is such a blocker. Or there's not psychological safety to be able to ask, "I don't get it, and I don't get its importance."

Chris Baty:

Right.

Kristina Halvorson:

Right. Curiosity, not rewarded in so many organizations. Do you have any guidance or counsel for people who understand themselves the value that they're bringing to the design process, who are working with designers who get it? Which frankly is any designer who's ever had the opportunity to work with a UX writer. Do you have any counsel for them around how to get the word out or how to change minds and influence hearts?

Chris Baty:

Yeah. I mean, it was interesting, when I had first started and was trying to make a case for hiring more writers. I put together, I think, probably the doc that all people that are founding a UX writing or content design function do, which talks about, in an abstract way, the impact. That you can talk about making products more intuitive or delightful. You can talk about the business or revenue impacts. There's that list of things. But there's no real substitute for being able to point to specific things that somebody has done as a writer, or a content designer, at your company, that have changed the trajectory of the way a team understands its work, or the way users perceive this product. So, I think I feel very, very privileged to have been able to hire just incredible UX writers, that came in and very quickly established themselves and then just did work that was undeniable.

That's such a terrible answer, because I think even when you have people doing work that's undeniable, it can be denied. It's like if somebody is missing, if an executive is not able to see, "Oh, my gosh. This person..." You were talking about, Andrew Schmidt. So, Andrew joined as the first writer on our FigJam, our whiteboard, and really became, in a lot of ways, the voice of FigJam. Came up with this interesting voice that was clear, yet very playful, took some very thoughtful, calculated, big swings, that really just helped crystallize what this product should feel like. It started, I think, along with the amazing design talents that were there on the product design side, it started to just create this very, I don't know. This unique sense of wonder and magic in, again, this 2D board that you're just dragging virtual stickies around on.

But there was something about that voice that was so beguiling, and that's really Andrew Schmidt's voice. So, I think everybody recognized that. But there are definitely moments of wins you can celebrate. So, for Andrew Schmidt it was, one of the things, he really pushed for us to take a chance on this tool tip when we launched this collaboration box. The tool tip that he proposed was, "Don't click this box." There was a lot of pushback internally. People were like, "I don't get this. I think we should just tell people what's in the box." I think Schmidt was like, "Okay. This is a new tool. This is our chance to really help get people's curiosity up." I think it was brilliant. It was risky and it worked, and Twitter just loved it. There were so many rhapsodic posts around, "Oh, what genius writing."

I think for Schmidt, it was this real sigh of relief, because I think he realized that people could be like, "This is super annoying. Why won't Figma just tell me what's in the box?" But I think things like that really capture people's attention, and it feels like a small thing, but the thought that's behind it is deep, and the amount of revs that were in that is long. I think being able to share some of that work is really useful. I think also, writers tend to be humble people, and I think as much as possible if we can get over that humbleness and become real sharers of some of our own work and our favorite moments, I think that that's key as well.

Kristina Halvorson:

I could not agree more. I have no patience for shrinking violets in this field. That's not what we need. We need proud and loud and excited and collaborative folks who are willing and able and brave about sharing their work, and who are curious about other people's work. Because I have also found, that if you express curiosity about what other people do, they're a lot more likely to reciprocate. I also need to correct myself quickly. Andrew spent many glorious years actually working on Slack. I had it mixed up with a different Andrew at HubSpot. Sorry, Andrew. Sorry. 

Chris Baty:

I think another thing, on that words of advice question, I think one of the things... So, writers have innumerable superpowers. They're bringing so much to the table, and so many unique skills and attributes. One of the things that I think writers can do to also help people understand, we live at the intersection of so many different disciplines. I think embracing that role. For instance, I think I've seen writers develop this expertise by just having those curious conversations with sales teams, and just being like, "Okay. What are our customers really struggling with right now? What are you struggling to explain? When you think about trying to sell the value of this to a big company, what are the sticking points for you?" I think being somebody that can understand, there's so many places where products are being used that I think oftentimes we design in a vacuum, and that's like, we go with what our gut instinct is and what we think maybe somebody might want.

But in fact, if you can be that person that brings together this hard, great data from the sales team, talks to the user research and understands, these are the three things that when somebody opens up a Figma file, really freaks them out. I think if you know what those things are, that becomes this really incredibly useful thing that you're bringing to the table. So, it's not just words, it's not just strategy, it's real data that can help us make decisions that end up building these products that are truly intuitive to users, because it's built around information about what they want, what they love, and what they're struggling with.

Kristina Halvorson:

Relly Annett-Baker, who works at Google actually gave a great presentation at Button, around how to get data that's going to help you make your point. Or how to get baseline data, so that when you do your work, you can show how it has changed. Because a lot of times I think teams just don't know what to measure. I think that is a really great example of, you know what? Go, send an email, go find out for yourself, and then wield it on your own, because we are empowered to do that, right?

Chris Baty:

Yeah. I think also, design teams get busy and we forget sometimes to check in on, but what do people really want? Or who really is our audience for this? Is it a power user? Is it somebody that is on their way to becoming a power user? Or do we want this to be really accessible and intuitive to somebody that is probably at that bootcamp you mentioned, who is trying out Figma or product design for the first time? I think writers are also great understanders of human audience and making sure that when people show up someplace they feel welcome. I mean, I think writers are the ultimate party hosts, even though so many of us are introverts. It's like we're able to read that room and understand, where is somebody feeling a little confused or where is somebody feeling overwhelmed?

Then figuring out the right words at that point is another art. But sensing that sense, that this is actually going to throw people a lot if we just show them this thing without a little bit more context. Or here's two ideas. If we can connect these ideas together, this whole thing will be much more effective in teaching somebody how to use that tool. I do think writers are just great at that. I think we tend to be much more empathic. I mean, writers are the best. So, I think I can just stop there. Writers are the best, we know the way. Put us in charge of everything.

Kristina Halvorson:

And...

Chris Baty:

Cut.

Kristina Halvorson:

We're out of time. Great. It was like I couldn't have planned it better. We are at the end of our time together. What a joy it has been to talk to you. If people are looking for more of you online, how can they find you?

Chris Baty:

So, I am Chris Baty at Twitter, and I am on LinkedIn as well, under my name. I think that we also try to share things in the Figma community. So, Ryan Reid, on my team, for instance, created this great overview for a Figma Basics for UX writers. Our team is making stuff and putting it there as well. So, yeah. Those are all good places.

Kristina Halvorson:

Great. We will include all of those links in the show notes. Chris, thank you so much for joining us today on The Content Strategy Podcast.

Thanks so much for joining me for this week’s episode of the Content Strategy Podcast. Our podcast is brought to you by Brain Traffic, a content strategy services and events company. It’s produced by Robert Mills with editing from Bare Value. Our transcripts are from REV.com. You can find all kinds of episodes at contentstrategy.com and you can learn more about Brain Traffic at braintraffic.com. See you soon.